Full Moon Bus Club: Forums / Tech Questions / Brakes? Do I really need them?

move your fuel filter out of the engine compartment

Club Supporter

Forums

Full Moon Bus Club :: Forums :: Tech Talk :: Tech Questions		<< Previous thread \| Next thread >>
Brakes? Do I really need them?


Moderators: TN Jed, Lickity Split, docric, sweetbus, Tom., Collie

Author

Post

TN Jed

Mon Apr 25 2011, 08:24PM

Slave to the bus

Registered Member #5

Joined: Sun Aug 08 2010, 02:32PM
Location: Telford, TN
Posts: 1577

Offline offline

I have a 1975 westy and I am getting a louder radio...

It all started with squeaky brakes. I pulled the wheels, cleaned with air and brake cleaner. One seemed slightly warped so I had them turned.

Squeak goes away but now I get a slight screech rubbing sound. It goes away when I turn the wheel or apply the brakes... The calipers are still warrantied so I replace them. Still had a noise, kinda hard to describe it though but kinda sounds like the pad clip is rubbing on something. I go ahead and replace the rubber lines as well, bleed again till I get solid fluid and still got a noise going on and brakes work but dont feel quit right. Like I should have more pedal.

If I start the motor with the brakes applied, they do go down a little when the vacuum hits the booster.

I replaced the master cylinder less than 2 years ago, rotors are less than 2 years old but were turned last week. It doesnt seem to pull to any side, I am not loosing fluid that I can see...

Calgon take me away :?

Anyone have any ideas?

Jerry Garcia said...

Constantly choosing the lesser of two evils is still choosing evil..

I mean, whatever kills you kills you, and your death is authentic no matter how you die.

And as far as I'm concerned, it's like I say, drugs are not the problem. Other stuff is the problem.
I think it's too bad that everybody's decided to turn on drugs, I don't think drugs are the problem. Crime is the problem. Cops are the problem. Money's the problem. But drugs are just drugs.

1962 Splitty Walk Through ~ Jelly Roll (project)
1970 Beetle ~ (un-named)
1971 Super Beetle ~ (un-named) daughters project
1972 Transporter ~ Riff Raff
1975 Beetle ~ Jerry
1975 Westy ~ (un-named)
1975 Westy Deluxe ~ Bertha (Daily)

Fred

Mon Apr 25 2011, 08:38PM

Registered Member #97

Joined: Wed Aug 11 2010, 10:50AM
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 1890

Offline offline

Wow, if you can make the noise come and go by turning the wheel Id fathom a guess that your wheel bearings might need some grease ?!?

Had too many vans to count
The best Bus tech site : www.ratwell.com

TN Jed

Mon Apr 25 2011, 08:44PM

Slave to the bus

Registered Member #5

Joined: Sun Aug 08 2010, 02:32PM
Location: Telford, TN
Posts: 1577

Offline offline

I repacked bearings which are less than 18 months old, last week when I did the rotors.

Also, the bearings had been repacked at least 3 times total in their 18 month life, the grease always looked good and no scuff marks on the rollers. And last week when packing and inspection, they looked fine. But that doesnt mean a lot since Im not the best when it comes to noticing the obvious lol

[ Edited Mon Apr 25 2011, 08:53PM ]

Jerry Garcia said...

Fred

Mon Apr 25 2011, 08:49PM

Registered Member #97

Joined: Wed Aug 11 2010, 10:50AM
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 1890

Offline offline

Well the other thing is the anti vibration thing that goes under the retaining pins. My brakes have a shim that go under the pads too

Had too many vans to count
The best Bus tech site : www.ratwell.com

TN Jed

Mon Apr 25 2011, 08:56PM

Slave to the bus

Registered Member #5

Joined: Sun Aug 08 2010, 02:32PM
Location: Telford, TN
Posts: 1577

Offline offline

I dont have shims behind the pads, didnt come with any. It kinda sounds like the anti vibration clip but I dont see anywhere on the rotor that looks like its been rubbing. I did wonder if maybe the rust in rotor edge was too coarse and rough to show as compared to the smooth, thiner metal of the clips.

Jerry Garcia said...

Meinvw

Tue Apr 26 2011, 08:27AM

Registered Member #48

Joined: Wed Aug 11 2010, 05:53AM
Location: on line
Posts: 1224

Offline offline

Get some of the shims for behind the pads and use either the anti squeal on them or i just use some permatex. The anti vibration clip does not rub on anything just keeps the pads from vibrating and touching the rotor. You may can get by without the plates behind the pads and just put a dab of blue silicon on the back of the pads where the caliper piston comes in contact with them.

The memories of a man in his old age, are the deeds of a man in his prime.

Kevin

Tue Apr 26 2011, 08:45AM

Registered Member #53

Joined: Wed Aug 11 2010, 06:33AM
Location: Norfolk, VA
Posts: 374

Offline offline

Those retaining clips I managed to put in upside down before. They made funny noises until I put them back the right way.

Norfolk, VA
68 Westy Honey Bucket
66 Beetle Charlotte
86 Westy Princess Leia

TN Jed

Tue Apr 26 2011, 08:57AM

Slave to the bus

Registered Member #5

Joined: Sun Aug 08 2010, 02:32PM
Location: Telford, TN
Posts: 1577

Offline offline

Im 99.9% sure the clips are in correctly but will double check it.

My pads didnt come with the shims so dont have any but gonna check a few local dub-heads and see if they have any spares.

Its definitely something rubbing because you hear it with each wheel revolution.

Jerry Garcia said...

Meinvw

Tue Apr 26 2011, 09:53AM

Registered Member #48

Joined: Wed Aug 11 2010, 05:53AM
Location: on line
Posts: 1224

Offline offline

I should have some of the backing plates, give me a ring this evening and remind me and I willl take a look.

The memories of a man in his old age, are the deeds of a man in his prime.

1977_L63H_P27

Tue Apr 26 2011, 11:02AM

Registered Member #90

Joined: Wed Aug 11 2010, 09:39AM
Location: Bristol, TN
Posts: 416

Offline offline

The RTV on back of the pads should do the trick. One other thing, you are bleeding according to Bentley, right? Right front, left front, right rear, left rear? I know it's odd, but the way the master cylinder is valved makes this sequence neccesary.

1977 Westfalia P27
1990 Passat 2.0L 16V

TN Jed

Tue Apr 26 2011, 12:31PM

Slave to the bus

Registered Member #5

Joined: Sun Aug 08 2010, 02:32PM
Location: Telford, TN
Posts: 1577

Offline offline

I took the retaining clips off and grinded them down on the tabs that could be rubbing. I will report back when I get home from the test drive/food run

Thanks all for the input.

Jerry Garcia said...

TN Jed

Tue Apr 26 2011, 07:16PM

Slave to the bus

Registered Member #5

Joined: Sun Aug 08 2010, 02:32PM
Location: Telford, TN
Posts: 1577

Offline offline

Brakes were bleed correctly
I ground the tabs a little and...

THE SAGA CONTINUES

Seems the noise is getting worse. Brakes work fine, bus stops on a dime and doesnt pull when doing so. Im not loosing fluid BUT... Now every once in a while, when you apply the brakes for the first time after stopping. You sometimes get a rubbing clunk or pop, kinda like the pads are shifting as they grab the rotter. Its just one pop or clunk until you completely stop and then only get it the first time brakes are applied.

GRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!

Jerry Garcia said...

Vetterdog

Wed Apr 27 2011, 12:09AM

Registered Member #221

Joined: Sun Aug 15 2010, 04:02PM
Location: Central Jersey
Posts: 890

Offline offline

If all else fails, jack the front up and turn the wheel and get it to make the noise. Then pull the rim off and try it. Check to see if there's a line running around the inside of your rim- like where the clip that holds the brake pads in might rub if it was still a little proud of the brake pad. I know you ground 'em but I had that happen once, drove me nuts for a week until I noticed that line! Had to bend the clip with needle-nose-pliers to get it to clear. Good luck.

"It's not that I'm any smarter than anyone else, I just stay with a problem longer" -Albert Einstein

DFV

Kevin

Wed Apr 27 2011, 07:32AM

Registered Member #53

Joined: Wed Aug 11 2010, 06:33AM
Location: Norfolk, VA
Posts: 374

Offline offline

The clunk makes me think of two things:

#1. A sticking caliper. But you said no pulling to one side, so that may not be the issue.

#2. Loose shock bolt.

Still doesn't resolve the grinding sound

[ Edited Wed Apr 27 2011, 07:32AM ]

Norfolk, VA
68 Westy Honey Bucket
66 Beetle Charlotte
86 Westy Princess Leia

TN Jed

Wed Apr 27 2011, 08:51AM

Slave to the bus

Registered Member #5

Joined: Sun Aug 08 2010, 02:32PM
Location: Telford, TN
Posts: 1577

Offline offline

What really sucks is there are no dub-heads around local to help. If I were at a campout it would be fixed in time for the pre-dinner drink bell lol

I drowned my brake woes in a bottle of vodka so am getting a later than expected start.

I had not thought to check the inner rim area, Ill be kicking myself hard if its in there :?

Im thinking loose sticking caliper, it doesnt make a noise pulling out or stopping while in reverse. Ill be checking the shocks too but would think a lot more pops/clunks if that were the case.

Will report in soon...

Jerry Garcia said...

TN Jed

Wed Apr 27 2011, 10:33AM

Slave to the bus

Registered Member #5

Joined: Sun Aug 08 2010, 02:32PM
Location: Telford, TN
Posts: 1577

Offline offline

All bolts are tight, shocks, calipers, etc.
No wear or rubbing patterns in the backside of the wheels and with the brake dust back there I think it would be a noticeable thing.

Only thing I did notice... The inner side of each caliper has a slight space between the pad and the rotor. Kinda like the piston isnt pushing out far enough.

New calipers so as soon as I get a "helper" Im gonna bleed the crap out of the brakes and see where that gets me :?
Im fighting the weather though, 20 mph winds and the storm is on its way, good help is hard to find around my house lol

Jerry Garcia said...

TN Jed

Wed Apr 27 2011, 04:46PM

Slave to the bus

Registered Member #5

Joined: Sun Aug 08 2010, 02:32PM
Location: Telford, TN
Posts: 1577

Offline offline

Bleed at least one tank full through the lines, solid fluid at all wheels with no spitting or sputtering.

Problem seems to be for whatever reason, the pistons on the backside of the rotors will not fully extend or they are too short or something strange like shrinkage lol

These are both brand new (rebuilt) calipers, less than 2 weeks old. Rubber lines less than 1 week old.

ANY ideas? I am totaly lost...

Only thing I know to try is just remove calipers and compress the pistons back into the calipers and start over :?

Jerry Garcia said...

Fred

Wed Apr 27 2011, 05:23PM

Registered Member #97

Joined: Wed Aug 11 2010, 10:50AM
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 1890

Offline offline

TN Jed wrote ...

All bolts are tight, shocks, calipers, etc.
No wear or rubbing patterns in the backside of the wheels and with the brake dust back there I think it would be a noticeable thing.

Only thing I did notice... The inner side of each caliper has a slight space between the pad and the rotor. Kinda like the piston isnt pushing out far enough.

New calipers so as soon as I get a "helper" Im gonna bleed the crap out of the brakes and see where that gets me :?
Im fighting the weather though, 20 mph winds and the storm is on its way, good help is hard to find around my house lol

You may be on to something with that space between pad and rotor.

Had too many vans to count
The best Bus tech site : www.ratwell.com

TN Jed

Wed May 04 2011, 08:12AM

Slave to the bus

Registered Member #5

Joined: Sun Aug 08 2010, 02:32PM
Location: Telford, TN
Posts: 1577

Offline offline

Dun Dun Dun Dun Daaaa!
It wasnt a issue with the calipers

After waiting for new ones, reinstalling, bleeding for an hour... The calipers still are not pushing out all the way.

Yesterday I picked up a new MC to replace the one that is less than 2 years old.... Today we will see if that fixes it

Jerry Garcia said...


Jump: Back to top