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Full Moon Bus Club :: Forums :: Chit Chat :: Around the Campfire
 
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so how are you dealing with these crazy fuel prices
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Moderators: TN Jed, Lickity Split, docric, sweetbus, Tom., Collie
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Cousin Huh?
Sun Feb 26 2012, 01:43PM

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Man gas and diesel prices are going through the roof. Guess the gas companies and politicians make more $ exporting refined fuel to China. So is this going to affect your bus activity this year. I am finally going to leap into brewing biodiesel. Funny how demand is down but prices are up. Gotta get my 78 TDI Westy finished. Cuz~X(

Allen
Stafford, VA

64 Corvair camper van, 63 Corvair panel van 8 door, 65 Greenbrier 8 door, 61 Rampside, 2010 TDI Jetta wagon, 12 TDI Golf 2dr 78 transporter soon to be tdi westy. 69 westy, 66 westy corvair powered



Remember where ever you go there you are. Cuz
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Robert
Sun Feb 26 2012, 03:26PM
robert

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In an overly simplified and only partially correct answer- yes.

I'm only home part of the year so when I am there I drive when I want and where I want. I gripe about it every time I fill up and I blame those responsible for the prices. I also write my congresscritters about how retarded an idea ethanol is- beyond that there's not much I can do.

[ Edited Sun Feb 26 2012, 03:37PM ]

1978 Westy
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Fred
Sun Feb 26 2012, 04:26PM

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In Sundays paper it says there are now 90 Chinese car companies, some small, but many flooding South American markets with cheap cars.

Had too many vans to count
The best Bus tech site : www.ratwell.com

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gregoryurban
Sun Feb 26 2012, 06:21PM

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It still boggles my mind that diesel, which requires less refining, costs more than regular gas.

Regardless, I'm in a position where I just don't worry about gas prices. My commute is 8 miles each way so overall I don't use much gas. Plus, my wife and I are both in stable, well paying jobs, so spending money on gas driving to the campgrounds still makes for (relatively) inexpensive vacations. And it beats the hell out of flying.
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bmor
Sun Feb 26 2012, 06:35PM

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Not too well! I'm retiring so I won't be driving every day but I was really looking forward to traveling some. I guess I'll just go as much as I can. As gregoryurban above said camping is relatively inexpensive.

" The thing to remember when traveling is that the trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all that you are traveling for. "Louis L'Amour
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Tomasz
Sun Feb 26 2012, 06:59PM

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not impacting me just yet, the way I see it, the more expensive it gets the quicker we all get off of it, which can only have positive impact in the long run



9. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1CJIA_1yPg
-9. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4oYixfK0ww
-8. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0_2Wq9Aos4
-7. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=050CTbaQ_n0
-6. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siMiK8T7xnk
-5. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-UE-KbCQD8
-4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szW14-Fa3Yw
-3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMxC6gAQW4s
-2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ry_bx-17isg
-1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxjHFOG4CYc
0. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzP7Gs8R-1U&feature=bf_prev&list=AL94UKMTqg-9BNsAnve2589LpAgPGZnuH2
1. RIP http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acLW1vFO-2Q&feature=related
2. RIP http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5cXxnoCuS0&feature=related
3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuPz7cMD3qs&feature=player_embedded
4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXl4znQZOpw
5. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9kGpx88MoE
6. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKCcY6IHKXE
7. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZ-N6dQ5A1g
8. RIP http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pao_YxkMVDU&feature=related
9. RIP http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NULDHca9tIE
10. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCFIgrp1HGI
11. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSuVTbSjEKM
12. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOjca0itAO8
13.
14. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVkPwdn7QEY&feature=related
15. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCUbAzli5vI&feature=relatedhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aoD2cXM3Dc
16. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nba3Tr_GLZU
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snoopy
Sun Feb 26 2012, 07:40PM
International Locksmith of Mystery

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drive 5.5 miles to the park and ride and take the city bus to work. Been doing that for 4 years now. I love my nap on the way to work and on the way home
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Vetterdog
Sun Feb 26 2012, 08:09PM

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And don't get me started on term limits for congress.........
Oh, wait, you asked how the rising price of gas would affect my travel plans? Uh...I guess I'll camp a little closer to home.

[ Edited Sun Feb 26 2012, 11:21PM ]

DFV

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sunroof71
Sun Feb 26 2012, 08:33PM

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I work for the post office and live 4miles from work. Takes me $30 a day just to go to work. I have no choice so I just suck it up.

1971 Sunroof bus- Fred
1969 westy- Lamont
http://kampers4kids.com/
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Robert
Sun Feb 26 2012, 09:49PM
robert

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Once again- only partially right and this is treading heavily into politics. A murky quagmire indeed.

ETA:
I'm feeling a bit daring today so let’s wade in and get just the soles of our feet wet. Before parroting back what the MSM is feeding you, we need to understand some basic economics. Let's start with some terms:
We’ll use Wiki as they’re easy to use- looking up gross profit we get this:
In accounting, gross profit or sales profit is the difference between revenue and the cost of making a product or providing a service, before deducting overhead, payroll, taxation, and interest payments. Note that this is different from operating profit (earnings before interest and taxes).
Net sales are calculated:
Net sales = Gross sales – Sales of returns and allowances.
Gross profit is found by deducting the cost of goods sold:
Gross profit = Net sales - Cost of goods sold.
Gross profit should not be confused with net income:
Net income = Gross profit – Total operating expenses – taxes – interest.


Notice the last two lines- I’ll post them again.
Gross profit should not be confused with net income:
Net income = Gross profit – Total operating expenses – taxes – interest.


Let’s use Exxon as our example here since it was already mentioned. Exxon posted record earnings (revenue), that much isn’t in dispute (almost 453 billion). The problems are several fold- firstly most people see than amount and are overwhelmed by it, it is a huge number after all. Secondly, it’s rarely put in any sort of context. You often see it listed as profit, but revenue is not profit and profit isn’t so simple as total moneys coming it. For it to make any business sense we need to look at profits and we need to understand that profit isn’t the best indicator- profit margins is a more useful term. The higher the profit margin, the more the company can pay its people (including those evil CEOs- the 1% that it’s so popular now to hate on) and the investors (those conveniently forgotten folks who actually risk their own money to provide capitol; conveniently forgotten unless we’re talking about large investment firms anyways.). So what was Exxon’s profit margin last year? 9.07%* That’s actually not that great in business; Apple for example posted a 28.2% profit margin**, Coca Cola posted 14.98%*** and Pepsi lagged behind at 7.02%****. In fact, if we look at Exxon’s stock price history, we see that their 52 week change is only 2.12%; their stock closed Friday at $87.34 and its 52 week high was only $88.13 so really they haven’t changed all that much in the last 52 weeks. They did have a low of $67.03 at some point though meaning any investors who took their money out lost it.

*http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=xom
**http://ycharts.com/companies/AAPL
***http://ycharts.com/companies/KO
****http://ycharts.com/companies/PEP

Let’s go back and look at that revenue number for a second because it is really high. Almost 453 billion is a really, really big number. Now how did they get there? Well Exxon sells oil and gas products including all sorts of lubricants- and they sell a lot of them because we use oil in so many of our products not just gasoline for our automobiles. Here’s an example- I sell 100 widgets for ten dollars but it cost me five dollars to make each one. My revenue is $1000 but my gross profit is only $500. If I sell one million widgets at ten dollars my gross profit is five million dollars. Five hundred dollars vs. five million dollars- that’s a huge number but then how many gallons of product does Exxon sell? I don’t know to be honest; I looked but couldn’t find a number. I did however find a pretty good site from last year when Exxon was about to announce record earnings then. Yes it’s an Exxon site, but it still provides us with a good easy picture of how some of the numbers break down.

http://www.exxonmobilperspectives.com/2011/04/27/gas-prices-and-industry-earnings-a-few-things-to-think-about/

All of this has just barely touched the surface of why prices are what they are but it gives you something to think about.


Disclaimer: I’m not taking up for the oil and gas industry here, OK, I am a bit, but all too often we hear folks simply repeating talking points from sources who either don’t know what they’re talking about or worse, have an agenda of their own. Note that while I work in the oil and gas industry, I do not work for an oil and gas company, I work for a group of doctors and their investors.





[ Edited Sun Feb 26 2012, 11:44PM ]

1978 Westy
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Vetterdog
Sun Feb 26 2012, 11:22PM

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Yeah, sorry. I was venting.

DFV

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Robert
Sun Feb 26 2012, 11:50PM
robert

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<Looks around cautiously> Don't worry- I think single terms, no salary or a very meager one, definitely no special benefits such as their ridiculous retirement and health benefits and doing away with lobbyist is a great idea. It used to be considered an honor and a privilege as well as a duty to serve.

[ Edited Mon Feb 27 2012, 02:44AM ]

1978 Westy
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Fred
Mon Feb 27 2012, 06:45AM

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Its interesting that after rebate I paid 50 cents for a new spark plug, and at the Walmart I got a new oil filter for $2.37. But at the dollar store a quart of 10-40 is well over $ 3 bucks. Over $7 for some brands at the FLAPS

So, I changed the filter, added ONE quart of new synthetic oil. Drained filter and put that in my recycle jug.

Had too many vans to count
The best Bus tech site : www.ratwell.com

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paintedbus
Mon Feb 27 2012, 11:16AM

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i am taking my time rebuilding my motor haha. It's getting excellent gas mileage being replaced by the subaru.

www.PAINTEDBUSART.com
SALEM, MASSACHUSETTS
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bmor
Mon Feb 27 2012, 11:26AM

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One issue that doesn't come up often is the lack of public transportation in rural areas. No bus no subway here it's drive or walk. Very fit people can bike, but it is so hilly biking is not an alternative for most of us.

" The thing to remember when traveling is that the trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all that you are traveling for. "Louis L'Amour
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mdwdrw
Mon Feb 27 2012, 02:01PM

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I remember when diesel was cheap. When the price started to climb I asked why if it take less refining than gasoline, why does diesel cost more? This was the explanation I remember. At some point, the way diesel fuel pricing was determined changed. They started to look at how many BTU's were in a barrel of crude. Because diesel fuel has more BTU's than gasoline, that justified the increase in price. You are not paying for fuel, but BTU's. Sort of made sense.

Traveling in the van and camping is still the cheapest vacation I can think of. The high price blows chunks, but beats standing in line for fuel like in the 70's for those of you that remember the manufactured shortages to drive the standalone service stations out of business.

Mark, Donna, and Jake. 82 Vanagon Diesel Camper
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adoom
Mon Feb 27 2012, 04:32PM
Adoom

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Short answer is, sort of.
My bus is parked. I can't afford insurance, and I certainly can't afford gas, so it's parked until further notice.

I drive, a lot. My commute is 50 miles one way. So a hundred miles a day, gas really starts to add up...and it's more expensive up here. Even driving a VW Jetta as a daily driver, I still spend close to $100 a week on gas alone.

So suddenly the idea of taking the bus camping on a weekend means:
Gas, usually between $40 - $60 for somewhere local.
Park fees, $60 (usually approx $30 a night for a prov. park)
Food, well you gotta eat no matter what but you tend to buy specialized stuff for camping.
Propane/Kerosene, $10
(and this doesn't include my finally biting the bullet and getting my plates renewed and my insurance up to date)

It's just getting too damn expensive. A simple "lets just take the kids camping for a weekend" ends up being over a hundred bucks....that I don't have.

Getting to see my friends south of the border, that's a whole other issue. It's getting to the point where flying is cheaper than driving and takes less time/energy.

But, as Tomasz says (and for the love of pete, edit your sig line man) "the more expensive it gets the quicker we all get off of it, which can only have positive impact in the long run". We've relied on oil this long because it was easier and cheaper than coming up with something better. It's time for a change.

Short answer, you may not see me at any campout for a while. Probably not this year.

[ Edited Mon Feb 27 2012, 04:34PM ]

"...maybe Eurovans do suck. Let's discuss it at the top of this hill."

1968 VW Bus, was a westy, now it's its own bus.
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Kudzu
Mon Feb 27 2012, 10:02PM
Kudzu
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Didn't know this until I heard it on the news today : Federal highway tax on diesel fuel is higher than it is on Gasoline.

1986 Westy Syncro "Bullwinkle"
1986 Wolfsburg Weekender poptop w/ 2.5 Subaru engine
1984 Vanagon - donor vehicle
1988 Tintop Weekender w/40K miles
1971 Compact Jr. fiberglass pull-behind camper
Will you look back on life and say: I wish I had, or I'm glad I did.
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Nature
Mon Feb 27 2012, 10:25PM

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Saw on the news tonight to expect gas to hit $5/gal - that may force me to stay local or reduce my camping trips

65 Microbus (Nubble)
68 Westy (Smiley)
68 Autostick Beetle (Lenka)
97 Jetta Trek (Onyx)
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Japhy
Mon Feb 27 2012, 10:45PM

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One day at a time. Untill there is NO option.
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Cousin Huh?
Tue Feb 28 2012, 12:00AM

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I need my flux capacitor

Allen
Stafford, VA

64 Corvair camper van, 63 Corvair panel van 8 door, 65 Greenbrier 8 door, 61 Rampside, 2010 TDI Jetta wagon, 12 TDI Golf 2dr 78 transporter soon to be tdi westy. 69 westy, 66 westy corvair powered



Remember where ever you go there you are. Cuz
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AlainRiaud
Wed Feb 29 2012, 01:45PM

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Stop crying, dear friends,
Diesel is over $7 a gallon overhere

Proud owner of "Couette et Café"
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Collie
Wed Feb 29 2012, 02:01PM


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Wow, $7 a gallon in France....I know it was higher, but thats gotta hurt for sure.

I just checked on the gas in Canada (Ontario), its roughly $4.60 a gallon as the $ is at par right now.....better than it was a few years ago when the dollar was not even close.

But $4.25 a gallon is tough for a lot of people who live paycheck to paycheck, and need a car to get to work.



----------------------------------------
1978 Westfalia CEII Automatic
1993 Buick Roadmaster Estate Wagon
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NPWesty
Wed Feb 29 2012, 03:47PM

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Well if you look into it you will see Supply in the US is very high and Demand is at an all time low. So to keep up the record profits,prices go up.

1987 Wolfsburg Westy
1987 Wolfsburg Vanagon
1988 Wolfsburg Vanagon
1985 Wolfsburg Westy



"In every walk with nature
one receives far more then he seeks"
John Muir
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Kudzu
Wed Feb 29 2012, 09:39PM
Kudzu
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Alain - I'll bet you get a chuckle when reading about all of our complaining about high fuel prices when Diesel in France is $7.00 and petrol in Great Britain is approx $10.00 per gallon. I don't like paying our .current higher prices for fuel any more than the next preson, but sometimes we need a reminder from someone like yourself, in another country, as to how spoiled we have become, when in the not so distant past gasoline here was $2.00 a gallon or less

1986 Westy Syncro "Bullwinkle"
1986 Wolfsburg Weekender poptop w/ 2.5 Subaru engine
1984 Vanagon - donor vehicle
1988 Tintop Weekender w/40K miles
1971 Compact Jr. fiberglass pull-behind camper
Will you look back on life and say: I wish I had, or I'm glad I did.
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